[Editor: This is the first in a series of articles on overcoming escapism by Brother Jason, a soldier in the Salvation Army. Jason doesn’t have a blog, but you should show him some love here in this shithole.]
I have been clean and sober now for 13 years. January 2005 I snorted my last line of cocaine, drank my last drop of alcohol and took my last puff of marijuana. It was in San Francisco. My life had been in a downward spiral for a few years at this point…..it accelerated after 9-11-01 but there had been problems with me beneath the surface for quite a few years before that. I just turned 34 about one month prior to deciding to become sober.
This won’t be some butthurt empathy winning testimony about “if a woman just gave me a chance” or how “my parents didn’t love me enough” then I would not have drifted into these problems. I made the choices in the end. They are my choices to live with, bear and hang my head in “shame” with. There are a few people I have tried to make “amends” with who still have not forgiven me. I can’t really blame them for not forgiving me if truth be told. Towards the end of my addiction……I became a nasty sort of fellow. Ruder, meaner, nastier and badder. Not in a violent sense…but in many ways the worse kind……….the pure “evil” kind. Hoping misfortune on others. Wishing harm and reveling in it when someone got housed, busted, or lost something important to them. It made me smile inside……..thinking that “they might know now how I feel most of the time”. The reality was, most…heck….all could care less about what I felt. My addiction was evil in the end. Very evil. Sneaky. Loving it when a woman got cheated on. Thinking it great when someone didn’t get that promotion. I loved watching people in emotional pain. It almost alliviated mine…..albiet briefly.
If I had been “good looking” on a cultural standard, I could have pulled it off a bit longer and perhaps even gotten away with it. That is a discussion for another time.
My drinking didn’t make me confident. I suddenly didn’t become suave, or cool in a club / party / bar scene because I was drinking. Neither did the cocaine. What it did do was just make me “forget” how useless I felt on the inside. How I was always ignored, or invisible to women. How I was always that guy in a peer group who was “just not with it” like the rest. The times I was flying high or drunk or both on those fog-soaked San Francisco streets……..being in this state constantly helped me cope with my strong but solitary nature. Something I always was. The guy picked last for any team sport. The kid who somehow “messed it up” or “didn’t do it right”
Now, this situation just didn’t start with me taking a line of cocaine, and suddenly I lost everything a week later. Nor did I take a drink in high school while living in West Germany as an American exchange-student and suddenly “had a drinking problem”
It slowly, slowly accelerated. After 9-11-01, like I said above it kicked into overdrive. I kept my haircut. I shaved. I dressed well. I still took vacations (usually to Seattle in those days). I still served on the Board of Trustees of my beloved undergraduate, I was one of the top donars to my college (25K a year from 1998-2002). I suppose I looked okay for my age……but obviously to women and others, I wasn’t. Alcohol and drugs did help me cope in this area. I had an advanced degree from one of the top polytechnics in the USA (Rensselaer Poly). I worked for freakin’ IBM Corporation! I pulled over 135K a year in 2001. I had three patents. I was leading a huge project for their new and innovation Enterprise Storage Server at that time……….a multi billion dollar project in storage technology. I was living in San Francisco, a place so many would want to live in……….my parents of course were proud of me. My college was grateful for my patronage……….and yet……………………………….and yet
A failure with women. Total failure. I was (and am) still a virgin. Never kissed a woman. Never even had a date. I won’t blame, nor lay my drinking and drugs at the feet of women……and I did for awhile. Looking back….ughhhh….THAT was so pathetic. It probably fed into the vicious circle thing…..and just made everything worse for myself and my outward portrayal to women.
This combined with being shy, solitary……alone……..seeing my friends from college and grad school date, get sex, date, get sex, date…….get married…….combined with the lies I had heard since I hit puberty that “women only want a really nice guy” and facing the reality of this not really being the truth. I also was not happy with my job. Sure, I did it and did it well. I didn’t really enjoy the corporate office culture. Forget the “suit and tie” thing……I dealt with that. I hated the politics, the phoniness, the “air family” of fakeness. I hated working in a skyscraper. I wanted to be the guy who BUILT the skyscraper.
This combined with a varity of other things led to 9-11……and my core finally was shaken. Not that I was some “pillar of stability” at that point, but all I had faith in……was shaken hard. Conspiracy theories aside……we had been attacked, and the people who were supposed to protect us didn’t. It became politicized almost immediately and add to the fact…….I was supposed to be there. Two weeks before that fateful day, I returned form a boring business trip from the Tucsan, Az facility. At the Monday morning staffie….I was told to go help configure the new servers that were just intalled in the bowels of the World Trade Center. A coworker, and co-developer Doug asked me if he could go instead. He was from NYC, and he would do the job…………and then take some vacation time to spend with his mom and dad….sister. I agreed. Anything to keep me out of New York City was fine by me. I told my manager Doug was going in my place…and he agreed to this.
Well…..as you can figure out……..Doug obviously died in the attack. No, I was not buddies or pals with him. We worked well together. He was my age (31 at the time), married for a few years. Had the cute wife. A little baby boy. He went to NYC and never came home……….everyone in my department KNEW I was the one asked to go…….and he ended up going….and no, it wasn’t on purpose and maybe it was paranoia……..but I “felt” like everyone in my department wished Doug was still around and I had not returned from a fateful trip to NYC. Doug was popular on the team.
This pushed me into a downward spiral……tailspin………..and anytime I wasn’t at work I was drinking, snorting up enough cocaine that would have even made Kieth Richards raise an eyebrow and say “whoa there Welshman! your puttin’ me to shame!”
I wanted to die. I kicked my feet up and jumped head first down the slide while telling myself “I’ll be dead in a few years….none of this is gonna matter”
Read Part 2!
Jason .. intro-spec-shun is a requirement for manhood. It’s painful .. & everlasting. But it is our honor to fulfill it (as men).
It is the true bond of men of every creed.
I hate you had to hit a very low point to return from (albiet ashamed of) your actions a better man. But a better man you are for this journey.
And most important .. Congrats on your sobriety.
That 9-11 story is tough. I can see how something like that would push somebody down that road.
Glad you got out of that spiral though. It wasn’t worth it.
Mr. Jason. You are very good writer you.re thoughtful intelligent and witty. I really hope that you start a blog of your own
*This combined with being shy, solitary..alone….seeing my friends from college and grad school date, get sex, date, get sex, date…get married…combined with the lies I had heard since I hit puberty that .women only want a really nice guy. and facing the reality of this not really being the truth*
I know exactly how that guy feels….knowing I am invisible to women and will never get laid has made me hate ALL women with a passion that scares me
I once told a female Councillor that I was seeing, that I think women are “gods”…..she looked at me like I had lost my mind and she questioned me why I felt like that
I said to her, only “gods” have the power to say no, and to hold absolute authority and power over whether men get their sexual needs met
I’m not wimping out here, just saying that the power that women wield to reject men continuously, and to never say yes to sex means they have the power of a “god” at their disposal
Why should sex be only available to the extreme alpha guys with tons of money, good looks and power?…….That’s the question I always ask myself, I guess there is no easy answer to that
“no, it wasn.t on purpose and maybe it was paranoia….but I .felt. like everyone in my department wished Doug was still around and I had not returned from a fateful trip to NYC.”
Mortality is a common reality check. You’re human, Jason.
WOW, Jason. I think this is the first time you have ever shared your 9/11 story. When reading your first few paragraphs I wondered how it was that that date affcted you so profoundly. Now I understand. That would be a terrible burden for even a happy and fully contented man to carry, but for someone wrestling with the demons you were dealing with, I can see why events took the course that they did. Praise be to the Lord that you worked through it all and that His Grace saved you!
Dear Peeps:
I’ve been harassing Jason to do exactly this for weeks. He doesn’t listen to me. Until I succeed in strong-arming him, I’ll be honored to host his content here.
Dear Kryptonian:
I read this passage:
Not fifteen minutes after having sex with an on-again off-again ho’ that I find useful for such things.
I should point out that there’s nothing wrong with her. She’s extremely nice and quite physically attractive. The angst I feel, at the need to debase myself with such women, is an issue that is internal to me. I find it hard not to hate myself for needing the use of such people. That doesn’t stop me, sadly. I have another date with her planned tomorrow.
This is an epistemic dilemma, of sorts. Do you have faith in the knowledge that women are all hoez, and accept this, only to find your life meaningless (my position), or do you abstain from women, holding out hope that you’ll find a unicorn, only to become embittered (your position) when one doesn’t arrive. Life is full of these funny contradictions, and I don’t have an answer.
Boxer
I think both perspectives point out what happens when you turn sex or woman’s desire into the god. It’s not God…like all of creation it’s one of many faint reminders of God.
It would be like worshipping trees, Thor, Zeus, money, or anything else that is creation. It’ll eventually leave you empty because they aren’t God.
Boxer askz ..
Short answer .. Neither.
I’ve done the first .. I’ve done the last .. and ..
You eventually realize (or at least I did .. eventually) .. they’re all hoez .. you find meaning in things other than hoez (probably age related .. the older I got the less I enjoyed being around them even for sex) .. and you live happy knowing there are no unicorns.
YMMV
@Boxer
I’m more of the position that all women are hoez one way or the other….some women are just in denial that’s all
Seeing how much total power women have, it makes me question God’s benevolence towards mankind….why would God create a creature (woman), and make us totally dependent upon them for sex, for affection, for love?
Does God not care that women have usurped God’s power and authority by becoming virtual “god’s” themselves, dispensing the comforts of sex, pleasure and love to those who are worthy of them
This total power imbalance will not be solved in my lifetime or my children’s, children’s lifetime….One day man will look back and realize the utter stupidity of granting so much power to women
MGTOW are on the right track, but they are living in a fantasy world of their own concoction lying to themselves that they don’t need women or love….In the end their walls will come crumbling down, as they realize we all need the love of a good woman, unless you’re a total faggot, or been brainwashed by religion into believing the lies of celibacy and their foolish advocates
‘Seeing how much total power women have, it makes me question God.s benevolence towards mankind..why would God create a creature (woman), and make us totally dependent upon them for sex, for affection, for love?
Does God not care that women have usurped God.s power and authority by becoming virtual .god.s. themselves, dispensing the comforts of sex, pleasure and love to those who are worthy of them’
You have read the creation and the fall of man, haven’t you?
Your blaming the wrong entity here.
K51 sez ..
Complete disagree. Some of us are natural loners or lone wolf.
You are falling for the .. everyone must be like me to be normal .. tradcon bs.
Just saying .. for you .. this may be true.
@earlthomas786
Are you talking about the Devil being responsible for this mess?
@honeycomb
I’ve always respected your views honeycomb….you bring much wisdom and insight into these threads
But in saying that, I’m not coming across from the tradcon point of view….I think tradcons are just as much deluded as the feminists are
I just don’t think there’s such a thing as a “lone wolf”….you might be a lone wolf, not by choice, but by the system and women in general, but deep down inside as men, we will always have the innate desire to be loved and to need affection from a woman….to deny that is to live a lie
No man (as in mankind) is responsible for the mess we are in.
K51 ..
We all view & apply our experiemce’s different .. it forms our beliefs in this arena.
I always have beem a lone wolf.
I never wanted kids. I loved being alone. I always chased skirt. It’s been a wild ride. But I stopped the wild ride of wimminz at about 39 .. plus I did kinda age out .. I’m almost 50 now.
I can get a skank hoe for the night if I really wanted.
And maybe I could nevwr love a womminz .. it’s possible. I tire if them pretty quick.
And maybe I’m the defective one.
But to think that my high mountain to climb is a woman is silly. My high mountain peak to climb has never been a family or a womminz. It was for my brothers. And they all got divorced. Two remarried. What suckers. I love’em .. but they are believers in this thing called love. It ain’t love .. it’s lust.
I do regret that I have never met a womminz that met my requirements. I would have loved to be “normal” just to know what that’s like .. & just took what I was told by th wimminz as normal & / or good enough. But as a very young child .. I liked to be alone. I used to ditch my brothers to be alone.
But .. I understand wimminz & I read the bible daily. So I’m not torn .. I’m not conflicted .. I’m really just not interested in a chit sam-which.
If you think God has a womminz for you .. it will happen. If God needs to move your feet he will. If God is in it .. then who can be against it?!
I am happy God made me the way I am. And you the way you are.
There are many paths to the same destination. I pray yours is devinely guided.
Hi everyone. Thank for enjoying this situation I was in…..I say was. Look, I will comment more when the whole shebang has been posted; then will comment on many of your thought provoking comments.
Its a situation I would not wish on anyone. I came through with most of my brain cells still somewhat intact. I know everyone in life does have something that hurts……there are all kinds of pain. With the drugs I was rasied better and I knew better.
I wouldn’t deny it. The first one we desire it from is our mothers.
However if you are talking about someone other than your mother such as a wife…then I’d have to ask how much importance do you place on it? Is it the most important thing in your life and to not acheive it you would see yourself as a failure? For me during a span of my life I thought it was…but once I realized my relationship with the Lord was more important it put it into perspective. I can’t control if a woman ever desires me…but I can control keeping a relationship with the Lord which in the end IS the most important relationship.
@earlthomas786
I respectfully disagree
If the “Lord” was enough for man, then the Lord would NEVER have said…. Gen 2:18 “And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone……”
When the Lord said that, Adam had full relationship with God, he was able to have intimate conversation with God and knew HIM on a daily basis, YET God declared that HE was not enough to quench Mankind’s loneliness
If Adam was complete and wasn’t bothered by his solitary existence than the Lord would have never said what He did
The fact of the matter is, you can deny it all you want, and live in some enlightened Nirvana state, and pretend that God is enough and you don’t need the love of a woman, but in the end it’s a lie and a denial of your fundamental human nature….you will always be empty inside and yearn for something that you can’t place your finger on, and it’s that deep inner yearning to be loved by a suitable “helpmeet”, a woman, which sublimation of your urges and desires will NEVER fully eradicate
Just because women have made themselves utterly toxic, and evil and unlovable does not change the fact that we need them
Read my post again, Krypton…it seems you either missed the point of it or are too focused on making women the god.
Yes. Absolutely yes.
Not getting married is a failure of God’s primary purpose for mankind. Man was not meant to be alone. Unless one is replacing a woman with God, it is not idolatry. Outside of love of God, getting married and having a family is the most important thing in life. It is why we are all here.
I agree, a woman is not God and we should not worship them. Nothing should be more important than the relationship with God. However, the martial relationship is a reflection of the relationship with God BY DESIGN. The passion and intensity of marriage is merely a lesser imitation of worship: that they are related is undeniable.
Depends on the person. St. Paul is a prime example.
Although rather than splitting hairs on this topic…I’ll point out it’s more important to point out the love of God is something that needs to come back in the hearts of men.
@earlthomas786
St.Paul? ….. I’ve never heard of a St.Paul, I know of Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles who wrote most of the new Testament, I presume that’s who you are referring to?
Yes, no one disputes the Love of God is needed, but you didn’t answer my question, or refute what I said
Man having full relationship with God, and walked and talked with HIM daily in the garden, was still “lonely” in God’s eyes, that’s why he made women for us
Man is NOT just a spiritual being, despite the continual lies of the Church, man is a tripartite being comprised of Spirit, Soul and BODY…..meeting man’s Spiritual needs i.e through relationship with God, is NOT enough to meet mankind’s deepest needs, there has to be a meeting of his “Soul” needs and “Bodily” needs in order to be a complete being
The Church lies and insists that man is complete by just meeting his Spiritual needs
What denomination do you belong to? It’s seems to be one of those who makes accusations about the Church without actually knowing the Church.
We have the Eucharist…which when consecrated repeats the Lord’s words at the Last Supper…this is my BODY given up for you…this is the chalice of my BLOOD, the blood of the new and eternal covenant which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins. Trust me…I know man is not just a spiritual being, considering I have this body and the Lord gave up his body.
Then where’s yours? From your own statements you seem to make women more of the ‘god’.
@earlthomas786
“Then where.s yours? From your own statements you seem to make women more of the .god..”
Don’t be so stupid……You took me out of context whilst once again refusing to answer my questions or refuting what I’ve said
You cowardly used an ad hominem attack on my character, when the issue was never “my love” but is God’s love TO US enough to meet our needs as human beings
Satan is called “god” of this world….are we giving him too much power?
women are “gods” in essence by USURPATION, they are not “real” gods and I never implied that
Next time earl, stick to the topic at hand, instead of deftly avoiding the real issues here, or at least try and refute what I’ve said
‘You took me out of context whilst once again refusing to answer my questions or refuting what I.ve said’
No I didn’t…I simply repeated what you said earlier. You told some female councillor that you think women are ‘gods’.
Anyway I’m sure you are aware that St. Paul talking about marriage was more about immoralities…however he wished men were like him. His gift from God was enough.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+7&version=NASB
Derek sez ..
And K51 sez ..
Having debated this over at Dalrock with BillyS .. you are both need to re-evaluate your position.
There is NO requirement for a man to 1) Marry 2) Have children 3) need a wommminz in the Bible.
If I’ve taken your position out context then let me know.
..
..
From my perspective only weak men need a womminz. I respect men who decide to have a family .. it just doesn’t mean it’s required to be in need of either.
Again yenz’ sound like all the cucks on TV (Prager U / Fox News Tucker Carlson) and every other Pastor who preached “man-up” messages.
I am not trying to inflame the topic .. it’s your choice .. but it’s a mistake in scripture to tell men to marry & reproduce (Boxer has a lil topic about my previous convo’s on this subject) due to biblical duty.
https://v5k2c2.androsphere.net/2017/09/13/marry-and-reproduce/
https://v5k2c2.androsphere.net/2017/09/08/single-fatherhood-as-ideal/
Correct, there is no biblical requirement (or commandment).
There is a huge difference between a requirement and a normative standard: it is not a sin to not marry. Sure, not marrying can allow you to focus more on doing the things of God. Those who choose not to be married for this reason are doing a good thing, but they are and always will be the exception.
The majority should marry and populate the earth. This doesn’t mean they should “man-up and marry” if there is no suitable partner to be found or if they are not a suitable partner for someone else. Most people will feel that inner pull, that sense of wrongness, if they do not marry.
I may be disappointed…but I won’t feel wrong. I only feel that when I sin.
@honeycomb
“There is NO requirement for a man to 1) Marry 2) Have children 3) need a wommminz in the Bible.”
Yes you are correct, there is NO requirement at all to do any of those things, but I never brought up “requirement” or “commandment” , YOU did……My supposition is that it is a need, even though not explicitly stated in scripture
An argument on silence is no argument at all, after all, there is no explicit commandment to spend time with your kids, yet we do anyway
I find it amusing that no one yet has refuted any of my contentions, despite many opportunities to do so
The Church is desperate to hold onto and teach the lie that God’s love is all we need, and we can all basically live celibate lives without women or the need for sexual intimacy….this is despite the FACT that to avoid fornication we are told explicitly to get wives for ourselves 1st Corinthians 7:1-2
“From my perspective only weak men need a womminz”
You are entitled to your opinion, but in my view, anyone who says they don’t need a woman is either 1: GAY, or 2: a LIAR
And I can prove that…..do not have women for friendship or company, do not watch any more porn, or erotica, no enjoying the view of women in bikini’s, no more MASTURBATION for ever, no more casual sex with “hoez”, live a life completely free from women and then get back to me in about 2 months time and tell me honestly how you got along by abiding all those conditions I stated and following them to the letter
We shall then see who “needs” women or not
K51 sezs ..
Did Jesus Christ need a (physical) wife? Did HE have a squeeze? Did HE have HIS own children (i.e. from HIS loins) to spend time with? HE attended a wedding did HE not? No mention of him being called gay for travelling with a bunch of men. No mention of HIM running day or night game on da wimminz either .. right? So even with the social norm’s of them dayz .. no one batted an eye to his behavior. HIS Apostles left their families to follow HIM .. were they wrong to do so?
My thoughts are .. you’re projecting your own bias on this issue.
Refer to the questions above.
But .. What did Paul say on the issue .. oh .. lets finish 1 Cor 7:6-9 .. 1Cor7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
So Paul was answering the question (1Cor7:1) they had on this subject. And .. No commandments were given. But .. 1Cor7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
You don’t have that gift (re: like Paul). You don’t understand that gift. You malign that very teaching with this ..
1) Nope .. 2) Nope (re: me) .. And neither was Paul.
1) A man can’t be friends with a womminz .. Next.
2) I don’t watch porn. I have seen it .. don’t get me wrong .. I am not a visual virgin. In a men’s environment .. Aviation .. Navy .. etc .. I have had pictures plastered in all the hidden places. Other men would say .. look at this .. yeah I do admire the wimminz figure .. if it’s worth looking at .. no land whales .. puke.
3) Well if th wimminz wear a baw-keen-ee to the beach .. I’ll be looking .. she ain’t doing it for the sun .. she’s showing me her figure .. and it would be rude for me not to judge her on her tan lines.
4) I haven’t hooked-up with a filthy lying skank hoe womminz in so long .. Heck its been right at a decade now.
5) No man can live without dealing with a wommimz of some sort .. they have invaded all menz safe spacez .. it doesn’t mean I do any more than necessary to escape to my safe space .. heh.
Been doing this for my whole adult life bro.
As to your dismay at the churches you know pushing the .. all you need is Jesus THE Christ .. they’re right .. Salvation has nothing to do with wimmimz.
But .. if you really think you should have sex .. then Paul gave you your answer .. though .. still not a commandment.
Hopefully that clears up krypt’s erroneous thinking that women are gods because they dispense the sex theory.
@honeycomb
I will respond when I have more time
K51 ..
Reapond when you can .. no rush or pressure.
It’s not a zero sum game. This js what makes us .. us .. our experiences forms our beliefs .. and we take actions based on those beliefs.
Don’t take me personally.
You .. 1) Don’t know me and 2) Should be developing and fine tuning your bushido daily.
Yiu shouldn’t .. 1) Worry what others think and 2) Especially what th wimminz think .. heh
Jesus taught, in Matt 19, that instead of marrying and being unfaithful or divorcing, that they should remain celibate and dedicate their life to the kingdom of heaven, if they have the strength to do so. However, some are able to dedicate their lives to the kingdom of heaven completely voluntarily. These have the highest spiritual calling, higher than those who marry. Yet doing so is quite difficult for most (but not all), which is why so few can choose it voluntarily. Humans were designed to marry and it goes against our very nature to not marry. It is a sacrifice: something is lost. When you choose to be celibate, you choose to give up sex and marriage. You can’t give up that for which you have no rightful claim.
Jesus not only didn’t need a wife, he could not have a wife because his life needed to be completely dedicated to the kingdom of heaven. Paul followed this same path and encouraged others to do the same. Both Jesus and Paul insisted that celibacy should be to focus attention on God’s work.
Those who are not in one of these categories should actively try to be in one of them. For most that means trying to find a spouse.
False, a hundred times, false. How can you be so absolutist and defeatist? Such a view would fill me with despair.
Derek sez ..
Make it a million times .. it doesn’t change that fact .. if she needs a friend .. she should have girlfriends .. and you should have male friends. Or just get a dog .. I have one & look how well I turned out .. heh.
Men and wimminz can not be friends .. it’s not possible .. unless of course .. you are the faithful beta.
Having been the Player for so many years .. I know these things. She calls me for the booty call .. & then calls the beta for the long conversation about the assholes in her life (re: me) .. unless she’s got girlfriends .. then she calls them first to tell’em she can’t wait to see me again.
As a reformed bad-boy .. I just have a good idea what th wimminz are like .. in a way a beta will never know.
Derek sez ..
Talk about despair .. that’s like fishing in a sewer these days.
Get a dog .. it’s way better .. lol
..
..
Fella’s .. I’ve lived outside the USSofA for a number of years .. learn a foreign language & expat. Don’t bring’em back here to the USSofA (re: wife / bride).
You can thank me latter.
Especially if you are looking for a wife.
My dad once told me…’I’m not your friend, I’m your father.’ If you are taking a position of authority you have to look at it that way.
Besides I’ve seen what women who are friends with each other do to one another…I’d think my male enemies would be more merciful.
Such strange terminology. I had to look up “beta” to understand this comment. Then I laughed out loud at the caricature description. Of course, again, your statement is notably and resoundingly false. If you’re going to take this stance, as false as it is on the whole, it’s going to become a personally self-fulfilling prophecy. How could it not?
The friendship I have with my wife is exactly why the starting foundation for marriage was strong and why it has been successful. The friendship is what leads to our complete trust in one another and what makes the relationship so rewarding and enjoyable. The alternative is completely unappealing, so I can see why marriage would be so disgusting to those who reject friendship as well.
Are there any long-term successful marriages that are *not* rooted in friendship? In my limited time in this sphere, I can’t recall anyone ever talking positively about their own marriage, except perhaps for Toad’s two ninja wives and his nice wife.
@honeycomb
“Having been the Player for so many years .. I know these things. She calls me for the booty call”
I thought you said you haven’t had sex in over 10 years
Derek sez ..
Derek have you ever heard of arranged marriages?
…
…
Seriously .. you are out of your depth on this topic. I’ve seen more successful marriages than you .. I’ve also seen more un-successful marriages than you .. and I’ve seen more arranged marriages than you.
I’ve been a liason to a Chaplain in the US Navy for 3 years .. I’ve flown with over 3000(+) different (male & female; 99% male) pilots over the years.
So I can see how you’d think you are some special “friendship marriage model” .. I hope it continues to work for yenz’ .. though it still isn’t the reality of marriage. Friendship is the first red flag I see before divorce .. or .. before she gets married after years riding the male pogo-stick parade and is just looking for a sucker to marry her.
It’s still a red flag everytime I hear it. Though it could turn kut to be nothing but two crazy kids.
It’s not 100% fool proof .. but it goes in with my other red flag material to provide a complete picture.
k51 sez ..
That’s correct.
I’m almost 50 .. I stopped bein a playa at 39ish.
I ain’t proud of my past sexual history .. but from college to the time I left flying for a living .. I have been known to spin plates.
As I’ve mentioned .. no promises were made to these broads .. they never got to keep anything at my place. In fact after 28 .. no wommimz came to my place .. it became a new rule. I always banged’em at their place or at a neutral site.
It weighed on me & my convictions.
I gave’em up. I kept the rest of my lifestyle the same. I just deleted bangin broads .. and flirting .. it’s been a decade now.
@honeycomb
I realize now that to try and debate with you is impossible, It seems you are a celibate monk
Both you and earl represent a philosophy of life (celibacy) that is not even natural, but is morally repugnant to me so it’s useless to try and change your views
But I will for the last time state my peace on this matter and hopefully be done with it:
“Did Jesus Christ need a (physical) wife? Did HE have a squeeze? Did HE have HIS own children (i.e. from HIS loins) to spend time with?”
Why on earth do you take an extreme EXCEPTION and make it the rule?
Of course Jesus didn’t have time for a wife and family…His goal lied elsewhere
“But .. What did Paul say on the issue .. oh .. lets finish 1 Cor 7:6-9 .. 1Cor7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.”
You continually avoid and obfiscate the issue by throwing up that red herring…..I never ever said it was a commandment to “marry”, it is YOU who keep on insisting that marriage is not a command, it’s a permission
My position has and always shall be, that man NEEDS women, so please stop side tracking this issue
“You don.t understand that gift. You malign that very teaching with this ..”
Quite the contrary, I understand this “gift” very well, except it isn’t a gift, it’s a curse pushed by celibate, sex hating, sex abstaining following doctrines of Devils… 1st Timothy 4:3
You cannot use Paul as an example to push the celibate lifestyle as his was a special ministry given to the body of Christ and was a massive exception to the rule……Even Paul said that he had the RIGHT to take a wife just like Cephas (peter) did
“1) A man can.t be friends with a womminz .. Next.”
Agreed 100%, you won’t get an argument over me on that one
“2) I don.t watch porn”
i notice how you conveniently left out MASTURBATION……..Of course oyu left it out because to admit you masturbate is to admit you need women for something
Once again, all of your spurious arguments are based on you conflating and confusing NEEDING women with actually acquiring a woman….they are not the same thing
A man can go decades with no sex and no physical affection from a woman but that doesn’t prove he doesn’t NEED a woman, all it proves, is 1: he can’t get one based on how hard it is to actually get women now days, and 2: That he’s sublimating his core physical needs and choosing not to pursue women to get his needs met
” all you need is Jesus THE Christ .. they.re right .. Salvation has nothing to do with wimmimz.’
Who said salvation is dependent on women?, YOU DID, not me
Actually we don’t just need Jesus Christ….That’s a lie cultivated by your asceticism and celibate ideology, of which I reject….we need food, water, clothing, touch, social discourse, we need to be loved…all those things are bodily and not spiritual and Jesus can’t meet those needs….he can lead us to those who can meet those needs but He himself cannot meet those needs
To say all you need is Jesus is just a retarded, super spiritual, self righteous delusion
Bottom line, I never ever said it’s not a commandment to marry…but we do NEED women, and like I said, whoever says they don’t is either 1: GAY, or 2: a LIAR
In order to prove to me you don’t need a woman, you would have to show me you abided by ALL the rules I stipulated before, including NO MASTURBATION, no admiring women in bikini’s or short skirts, no interaction with them as much as humanly possible, no desiring them in your HEART…just a complete abandonment of them as a species
Until you do that for 10 years CONSISTENTLY, don’t tell me you don’t need women
@honeycomb
” I just deleted bangin broads .. and flirting .. it.s been a decade now.”
I find that answer evasive……are you telling me you haven’t had sexual intercourse, with penis in the vagina, for over 10 years straight?
k51 sez ..
Or ANY other orfice.
When I went to sea on a submarine, as a young-man, I never had any issue missing th wimminz. I knew I could do without them (before & after that experience). They’re not important except if you want babies. I don’t understand how you can’t see that.
k51 sez ..
First .. some discussions have boundaries .. Master-Bait-shunnis one such topic .. you’re out of bounds to assume I do .. & I won’t discuss with you even if I did.
Second .. you’re angry you can’t get the answer you want.
So .. we’re done here.
..
..
The men’s group / friends I have are 75% married .. because it was the social norm. If they could donit over they would not have gotten married. Only one of my friend(s) has told me he can’t not have a womminz in his life & he hates himself for it. Now he is noteably the only NONE church going None Christian I know.
We are grown azz men who didn’t frow-up anywhere near each other. We all have some of the same shared experiences though. We have our hobbies & work. It’s a full-time life whwn you add anything else .. like exercise & travel to see family.
When you get some life behind you .. you might get a clue.
K51 ..
Do mem need wimminz .. nope.
part ii
The video I wanted to show has been removed from youtube & I can’t find it eslewhere. Oh well. It was men vs wimminz on separate islands. It took place around 2006 iirc.
Those men thrived without any wimminz & th wimminz required help from the film crews (aka men) not to die & also required emergency evac’s.
@honeycomb
“First .. some discussions have boundaries .. Master-Bait-shunnis one such topic .. you.re out of bounds to assume I do .. & I won.t discuss with you even if I did.”
Sounds like I triggered you alright…..Of course It’s your prerogative whether you wish to discuss masturbation or not
I personally don’t have a problem with discussing it because I am not ashamed of that particular act, you obviously are hence your evasiveness
I stand by my comment, any man who can go without penis in vagina sexual intercourse, no oral sex, no physical affection or touch from a woman for over 10 YEARS, and no cumming via masturbation is either ASEXUAL, Gay or lying, now take your pick, be a man and own up to it
“Second .. you.re angry you can.t get the answer you want.
So .. we.re done here.”
Actually I wasn’t angry at all, i was having a polite discussion with you and simply stating my points….it was YOU who was and still is evasive
But yeah, we’re done here, I found out everything about you which I wish to know……..Christian asceticism, and Celibacy and their advocates like YOU and Earl are holding onto a doctrine of Devils, and if Boxer allows, I will always stand against and fight with my last dying breath…..but to insure that this thread is not derailed I will desist out of respect for Boxer
I would highly suggest you take some lessons in English Grammar….your English is absolutely appalling
k51 sez ..
LOL .. sez the guy who almost always forgets punk-shoe-way-shun .. sigh .. smh.
Look .. I’m on my phone & never use a computer to post and never on wifi .. it’s called privacy / opsec .. so .. yes I have issues regarding posting .. I can’t type as fast as my mind thinks .. I don’t proof read any responses .. & occassionally post will enjoying an adult beverage & carrying on other convo’s with friends at our usually meatspace location.
Lastly .. I don’t care if you don’t like or care for my grammar / spelling.
As for your victory .. it’s all in your mind bro .. I’ve met guys like you before. You’re impossible to teach or mentor ..
btw .. I’d caution you on your idea of “evil”. You have no standing via scripture or otherwise to accuse a Christain man of such things.
@honeycomb
“LOL .. sez the guy who almost always forgets punk-shoe-way-shun .. sigh .. smh.”
Thank you for confirming how atrocious your grammar truly is
“As for your victory .. it.s all in your mind bro .. I.ve met guys like you before. You.re impossible to teach or mentor ..”
I’m not your “bro”, and I certainly don’t need mentoring from an asexual ascetic like yourself
“.d caution you on your idea of .evil.. You have no standing via scripture or otherwise to accuse a Christain man of such things.”
Why do you caution me?….do you have some particular knowledge of my moral impropriety?
Coming from a man who brazenly admits to being a serial fornicator a decade ago, I’ll take what you say to me with a grain of salt
Have a nice day
Ok man…if your sexual sins are that important to die for, go for it. Perhaps if you weren’t whining about the fact that women find you invisible or seeing them as some sort of ‘god’ you might be able to get a wife and have a licit sexual outlet. Ask a woman out sometime and start the process to getting married.
And yes…I just told you to get married. Perhaps this whole ‘doctrine of devils’ nonsense is all in your head.
Agreed. Whether it be setting up woman as god or self as god, both must cease. Christian celibacy and marriage are both valid paths.
Earl ..
Engaging with k51 is fruitless.
He’s a argumentative gamma. The only answer he is okay with is his own. If you don’t agree with him it’s because you are full of devil’s.
He’s perfect in every way .. just ask him .. even when his hip-po-crit ways are shown he doesn’t see it.
He doesn’t need our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ because he is so perfect. Except he hasn’t yet completed his (i.e. k51) holy trinity of uniting with a womminz. But just wait .. he’s almost got that nailed down.
I won’t engage any further with him .. he’s now on my ignore list.
Dear Peeps:
Honest arguments aren’t disrespectful. No one here has violated the comment policy. You should keep going for as long as you like. If any of you guys wants to contribute a guest article, laying out your arguments, I’ll be glad to publish it as a standalone.
Of course. I also know that, when all else is held equal, arranged marriages are not notably more (or less) successful than free-choice marriages. Both have high rates of success and reported marital happiness. Your conclusions are skewed (i.e. selection bias) based on your experiences. Nor are these clean black & white considerations. Arranged marriages often involve free choices and free-choice marriages often involve selective pressure.
Had my parents arranged a marriage with one of the two obvious choices, I would certainly have been happy. Yet, I’m much more satisfied with the choice that I made (my parents approved). She’s a better fit.
Of course I am, I never claimed otherwise.
You’ve read my posts on marriage, so you know that I’ve never claimed that friendship is a sufficient for a successful marriage (or strictly speaking even a requirement). There are many factors. I’ve merely objected to this absurd notion that you can’t be friends with a woman. It’s so trivially disproved. I’m unclear if you are really so biased that you cannot acknowledged that there are millions of successfully married people who are friends with each other. (Nor does an arranged marriage somehow preclude friendship)
Derek ..
My bad .. you are fully up to speed.
My con-tin-shun is friendship .. like love .. is a shared experience .. after marraige .. not a pre-rec for .. or the continuation thereof .. regarding marriage.
Mutual affections and respect come from that shared growth. I’ve seen it most in couples with many children. My parents come to mind.
Derek sez ..
They can’t .. if you want a friend get a dog.
..
break
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Derek .. quick question for ya’ ..
Currently do we (re: western culture) have a complimentary or competitive environment for men & wimminz?
Since I have been a lifelong single…..and lived in “the world” mosy of my adult life; let me give you my lowdown on this:
*Men and women can be friends…..however when your heart is *crushed* for the billionth time because she just “doesn’t feel a spark with you” though tells (lies) to you that she wished “all guys could be like you”. A real man who is single, who wants a girlfriend or wants dates needs to run in the opposite directrion fast when he hears this from a woman. He doesn’t need to explain in the WORN phrase “well, I have plenty of friends….” he just needs to ditch. He will end up sad, being an emotional tampon, and stuck orbiting her….and she will give him WRONG and BAD advice to keep him single. Any woman he does show interest in; she will derail or make him feel like the woman in question is too good for him. Spent many, many years wasting TIME being “friends” with women; and guess what???? After they amrried THEY suddenly you know………couldn’t be “friends” with me……….I was the one who was left. If I could tell my 19 insipid self ONE thing it would be: unless she is your wife…….she is NOT your friend.
Men my age (GenX) and downward keep falling for this lie because we “all have that friend or know somebody” who was amazing friends with that awesome gal….and one day she just *opened* her eyes and realized the *one* was right there all along. This is fiction. It happens in movies………there was a cadse reported in feudal Saxony…..scholars debate its authenticity….
Be polite to women. General manners and decorum………..but being friends with them as a single man will get you ZILCH
Derek .. here’s a cliff-notes version of 1 out of 100 reasons why ..
Jason sez ..
Jasin nails it in 13 words (after the dots/ periods).
There could be a novel written on before .. during and after relations with wimminz for men. But Jason sums a great reason for single men to avoid it.
..
..
I would need some time and many words to explain all the whys .. with references.
But .. Derek .. you both can respect and love one another .. but being friends is a huge mistake. Think about Headship.
I think many people assume being friendly to someone makes you friends. It does not.
The number 1 reason I can give why men and women can’t really be friends.
Almost everytime I had a woman break up with me…she wanted to be friends.
‘Do mem need wimminz .. nope.’
At least in a survival situation…funny how things like crying, complaining, being scared, and having a sexy body don’t really do much to improve the situation.
Men and women were created for different biological purposes…that’s why we complement each other.
That’s pretty much the way I see it too.
I think the case could be made that in prehistoric times, men and women needed each other much more acutely than is the case today. Women tend to have certain cognitive strengths that complement their man’s abilities. Today, such things are outsourced to machines or the rudiments of AI that are beginning to develop (Hey Siri!)
In the old days, the weak and unfit were culled out of the population pretty rapidly. I look around at people now, both male and female, and laugh to imagine them even a few generations ago (fighting the plains indians, surviving the dust bowl, etc.) Most of these infantile losers would have been erased in short order, and no survivor would have counted the loss as anything but a blessing.
Earl sez
.. I firmly believe it is as simple as the complementary vs combative / competitive (re: men & wimmimz) environment we live in today.
Wimminz are not complementary any longer .. they have been trained to be our competition and to be combative with men. Until that changes .. nothing will get better. Young men now have firmly grasped this idea and started behaving accordingly.
This rebellion of God by th wimminz (re: subversion of Headship) couldn’t be any further from anyone’s mind than right now. In terms of it being a problem (re: Normal Blue Pill Men).
And we aren’t going back to whenever someone says were the good old days. So men need to suck it up, and hold-on .. this roller-coaster hasn’t stopped moving yet.
The combative role women are learning is just another part in the long list of ways for them to get power over her husband. They’ll always have the desire too…God himself said so…but in the end her husband will rule her.
Boxer sez ..
It appears this is the only way to balance the scales, once again (re: hard times ahead).
If they can’t take an opposing opinion without emotionally breaking down…I’d hate to see how they would react to a dust bowl or fighting indians.
Are you asking me what the trend is? Obviously it is competitive.
Derek sez ..
Yes sir.
I agree .. please check my other posts here about that (re: competitive).
Now….if you have no interest in the woman in question….you get along okay, some shared interests, and if she really is going to treat your relationship as a friendship. No problem. What is ‘friendship’ well in my ol’ book it boils down to this: a friend is someone who knows pretty much everything about you but likes you anyway. a friend is willing to be there for you; even in the tough times. has the ability to listen and give sound advice to you (or you to them) without them getting defensive.
That last line righ there rules out most women. when a woman wants to be your friend you are her sounding board to justify any decision she makes. I don’t want any part of that in my life anymore. Any man with a nickels worth of common sense wouldn’t want that either
None of these are mutually exclusive.
It depends on your expectations. If you are looking for a friend there are many rewards. If you are looking for a mate, then…
Few friendships outside marriage are lifelong, especially opposite-sex friendships. Even fewer friendships are between those who are marriage compatible. I went into many relationships hoping that one of them would end in marriage, but they were not unsuccessful because they didn’t end in marriage. I’ve also lost friends to marriage. When they get married, their priorities changes. It’s not pleasant, but how else could it be?
But what about that one friendship that turned into a marriage? That was gold. Yes, I spent a exorbitant amount of time getting to that point, wading through the pain and anguish of various rejections. And it might not have been successful at all. That’s the risk I took. As I’ve said elsewhere, a deep friendship is not required to enter marriage. But if you can pull it off it is fantastic.
I wish someone would have told me that when I was young and dumb.
Derek sez ..
I’m happy for ya .. you’re a stat anom.
As for me .. I’ll remain cynical .. sta-stis-tickle-lee speaking of course .. heh.
Me too Derek. I had to learn the hard way.